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as the title says. Fal Dara the most fortified city in the north has them. how come that run down keep dont

The answer is about the same as Why hasn't Lan/Moiraine been removed from main PK pathways? Ignorance, stupidity, lack of any basic knowledge, and no doesn't really care about what the players think.

It's been asked for before I can't remember what the exact response was but it made no sense, had no bearing on the game as it is currently, and the players who actually go into RK and have the most experience with it were ignored as usual. It is important to note that RK did have jump exits. Why they were removed, who knows. I think it had to do with they were trying to balance putting in a rogue practice in FD which had to be countered with removing keep exits. Unfortunately the rogue prac never came

This is one of those things that seems like a no brainer to me, never really understood the reason against it.

Promote pk, promote risk taking, absolutely no RP cost. As mentioned, it's a ruined keep.

Not just RK but every major city needs a jump exit.

RK
TV
Mayene
Tear
Illian
Baerlon (bathroom trick is abuse in my books)
Maradon
Even TKD


and any other I've missed.

TKD i dont agree with. I imagine walls surrounded with sulfric acid pools and spiked barricades. I mean yes if you get desperate enough you will jump. Most people would jump out a window than burn to death. but as said it is a ruined keep and that i envision a keep like on Robinhood prince of thieves when he goes home, a hollow empty shell with gapping openings.

I think it was some non sequitur about call mob being different in keep. Or maybe because you can run through a very long, twisty hard on moves maze to find another locked door that makes it reasonable.

No one would mind jump exits, they encourage city raiding and get the raided side kills more often then will get them killed.

Keep doesn't autolock. If you go in at night the gates stay unlocked. Cities with gates that do not autolock don't really need jump exits. Also, no call mob.

Though I don't think anyone would mind if keep had jump exits since it seems unlikely more humans would actually end up chasing into keep. Also, encouraging DS to develop the same class of pkers who just stands at a city gate spamming, hoping an enemy comes inside, seems... lame.

The comparison is crap. Fd doesn't have a huge, no-track sub zone attached. Fd has 2 no mob rooms. Rk has tons. Rk keys are far more accessible than fd. Fd has, what, 3-4+ cheap-shouldn't-be-in-the-game gate defenses? Call mob support in fd is greater than rk. Rk has channies. Fd obviously does not except for afk ahnvari. Fd important rooms are all pretty much no-hide. They are not the same. Adding a jump spot just means ds needs to have 1 extra blocker on. When no fade is on to refresh, chasing in keep is already ridiculous. The good players suggesting this is a balanced/fair idea boggles me and I'd appreciate your rationale other than fd has them and it's rp worthy cuz it's a "ruined keep" and must have holes. We have a huge hole. It's on the right side of our keep. Trolls have fortified the rest. I'm sure I left out some differences... Here's a fair trade though. Add lame gate defenses to rk and I'll dig a hole in the side of our castle you pukes can jump out.

I feel like you've never actually tried running around extensively in RK on a normal human character.

I feel like you know me too well! I base this simply on chasing

What do gate defenses do that's horrible, that dreadguards don't do?

I know Fal Dara is very strong and inhospitable to raiders, but I'll tell you that it used to be WAY worse. When it was initially downed and given jump exists there were a lot of Lancers who were very angry that trolls were coming into the city though it seemed like they were more angry that trolls were able to survive, sometimes get kills, and frequently escape. I found this a little strange because the trolls would never have come inside, but for the downing (you know gates used to never open once a troll set them off) and the PK for the most part was grossly on our terms. There's a handful of no-mobs, but in general a human with moves has ample options to go to where they can receive the assistance of extremely aggressive, chasing mobs.

Putting jump exists into keep will encourage (though I doubt it will honestly be that much) raiding into a zone that grossly favors you where trolls who don't want to die will have ample opportunity to hide or use amazing mob support. You won't get to kill everyone, but raiders die more than they live or get kills in my experience.

Also - most of the keep is dismount. Spin that into a wolfbrother advantage, but its a huge blow for most people.

Come on, a dl isn't stationed at gk. I offered some valid points I think! Lang fled into gk 20ish times today trying to get out/stab. I seriously doubt he was ever worried even with 4 trolls trying to block/kill. But yea, I might base my opinion too much on chasing yellow eyes.

That's just dung blocking then. All it takes is 2 people blocking properly and he's stuck.

it wasn't dung blocking it was called we got ran haggard chasing him around keep where he could move around with impunity until he finally got a good flee past blockers

I'm fairly certain it's not the case that wolfbrothers do better in rk than other humans. Better said, there are still significant move costs involved. Could be wrong!

Maze is not a viable escape route for humans except possibly for Lancers.

It can be a pain to find someone in RK, except on a rogue. Basically every room in RK is scannable. However, try chasing a fade or troll around in FD on a human and you will also end up hagging out fairly quickly, especially if it's a stabber.

It definitely sounds like dung blocking

RK is different to FD that is true. FD does autolock but it also unlocks after a tic and there are plenty of places to hide for that tic and then you can get to one of 2 gates which are 5 rooms apart. It's a linear map rather than the more open GK, has less no mobs but is also better for getting kills in than keep is.

Keep's major maluses are moves and DG's. Moves get totally eaten on a human in there, I normally ending up popping 1 or 2 vials when we go in with a group. DG's are just terffiying if you run into them unexpected. Jump exits are to encourage solo raiding though, not group raiding which already happens.

Trolls should be for this, it means humans taking risks and hitting keep, more chance to kill them when you're low.

Hah!

I was wondering why nobody mentioned the moves in keep are horrible, thankfully you did. The moves should be like any other paved area, I'd think... It's cobblestone, not overgrown Blight! Not to mention all the mobs in their track you around, are actual combatant mobs (with gear and weapons) and there's way more of them than guards in FD (and DGs call mob to boot).

And even if you did jump out of the keep... you're a human, dismounted, in the Blight. Yay? All cities should have jumps or no cities should have jumps, obviously.

It's been forever since I've raided the keep, but I can't fathom why anyone would do it short of being a wolf-brother, it's just stupid and handholdy. Certain sides have far too much coddling going on to ever really be classified as playing the same game that purports "be attacked anytime, anywhere" as much as this one does.

Just another great example of super biased people posting.

Ignoring all the stuff that others have already corrected...why would you be against encouraging people to chase into your DT of a city? Anything that encourages pk and risks should be a good thing.

As it stands, fd is 5x easier to chase into and move around in than keep is. Even if a jump exit was added (and yeah, fairly sure it is possible because there used to be one and there was also a temp. monthly change I think) keep would still be significantly more deadly than FD is. The only time that FD gets dangerous is if there are lots of humans inside. If there are lots of DS in keep it is pretty much a DT unless you get lucky.