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What the hell do they spend so much time studying for? They all seem to suck hardcore with the one power and all the useful things are secret stuff no one tells each other, like eavesdropping and compulsion. There is an entire Ajah devoted to healing, yet they only do one weave. Two other Ajahs, Brown and White don't even really do stuff power-related, while Gray and Blue are only power-suggestive. Green hasn't done dung since the trolloc wars and Red only needs 2 weaves (although they don't even realize they can slice MCs weaves, so they only use 1). It's like No Child Left Behind. Study forever for useless tests with useless weaves.

Well, if New Spring is a good example, most classes pertain to history, geography, politics, royalty, logic, philosophy, law, etc. Probably a bit of psychology as well, only specifically focused on human manipulation. There's probably some mathematics and biology in there, too, although I doubt that is emphasized outside, say, the Brown Ajah teachers. Essentially, it is a training school to make them leaders of the world, able to pull the strings on rulers and see "the bigger picture" when dealing with nations. The majority of the test for Aes Sedai, after all, is on focus, patience, composure, and all that stuff. The One Power, and being strong in it, is more like a prerequisite, I think.

So yeah, I imagine its more like a traditional college education, only one of your majors has to be working the One Power.

I think that's why the Forsaken call all the Sedais children. The Sedais of the AoL knew more and learned faster. The Sedais in the White Tower are still studying, "helping" the people of the world.

poorly thought out bene gesserit knock offs

gaidin/warders pretty badass though!

in the AOL, kids would go do school, and when they were teenagers if they found they could channel they then took classes, in the one power. that was pretty much it. most AS did professions that DIDNT involve the one power, (the forsaken included a psychiatrist, stock broker, musician, lawyer, and athelete) a very few in the AOL actually worked with the one power. so by far most AOL - AS were only moderately educated in the use of the one power, but consider how much more a 6th graders learns now than they did even 100 years ago

and while the yellow ajah only use 1 weave for healing, it takes great skill to know what the limits of the healing are, if you heal too the shock will kill them, and if you dont heal enough they wake up enough to drown in their own blood etc. also delving was different i believe, some were "better" than others

I have to disagree with you Gaeb. I don't think AoL Sedais are able to do things Randtime Sedais couldn't dream of if they were only moderately educated in the use of the OP. Plus, OP was the main source of energy in the AoL. There is no way only a few worked with it. And that thing about the yellow ajah. I like to compare field medics and hospital doctors. The only type of healing yellow ajah sedais knew is the crude stuff. It used the Power to stimulate the person's body to use its own energy and increase healing. AoL healers could probably use the Power to take care of the stimulation and the energy needed to fully heal. I bet they were also able to pin point illnesses so that the patient do not drown in their own blood or things like that. Delving was also probably used to pinpoint different illnesses and conditions. Much like xrays and the thing docs use to see the brain activity, delving weaves probably varied unlike the randtime sedai delving that shows a bit everything and not fully in depth (think normal delving and the wise one delving for pregnant kids)

Alternatively, they could see them as children simply due to age. The AS in the AoL lived to be 700-900 years old. The longest-lived Aes Sedai only survives to around 300, and most only make it to about half that. If you are a 600 year old AS from the AoL, comparing your prowess and knowledge to a 150 year old AS from the Third Age, it is similar to comparing the knowledge of a 60 year old with a 15 year old, i.e. a child.

So I'm not sure I would say the AoL AS learned faster; they had more time to learn, AND obviously they had a great deal more information at hand to be taught.

Not to mention there was less secrecy, betrayal, conspiracies, etc. that goes on in the White Tower because the Dark One hadn't been released yet. Not that evil was entirely absent, but you didn't have to worry about a traitor to the Shadow in your midst back then.

700-900 years old is a bit of a stretch imo. The Oath Rods existed back in the AoL (called the 9 Rods of Dominion/Domination something like that) and even though the oath required was different, an oath was required for a user of the One Power to become an official Sedai*. And we all know an oath meant lowering a Sedai's lifespan to around 300. And i completely agree that there was more information available in the AoL, i forget why i said they learn faster, but wth lol, it doesnt matter.

*I said official sedai because to me, there were two different types of channelers back in the AoL. There were the normal, average kind of channeler (those who didnt get their 3rd name), and those who became famous and received a third name (the real kind of Sedai, the ones that had Aiel serve them).

The Oath Rods did exist, but they were used on criminals. As they did not bind law-abiding Aes Sedai or channelers, they would all have had the extended lifespan.

Just to clear that up. I, too, thought the Oath Rods = the Nine Rods of Dominion for a long time, but evidently not. Also, I can't find the quote now, but I somewhere Jordan also said a "very strong channeler" has a lifespan approximately 10x greater than a healthy nonchanneler. If you assume a healthy man or woman lives to be 80 or 100, that puts the high-end of the AoL AS age cap at 800-1000. Most of the Aes Sedai probably died off around 600-700, with the weaker ones succumbing to old age around 300-400.

Not trying to be argumentative, just educational.

EDIT - Alivia the Seanchan is 412. And we learn in Winter's Heart there is a Kinswoman who is almost 600, although her name escapes me.

LOL. So if randtime sedais lived in AoL they'd all be considered criminals coz of the ageless face hahaha. Thanks for clarifying that for me Gem.

Heh, I never thought of it that way.

One ring to rule them all and in... yeah.

first mistake



when i gave the reference that "moderate" was relative, a person with a high school level knowledge is "moderate" today, but he would be an uber-genius 3000 years ago. after a few years of study in the OP, they would be able to do amazing things by randlands standards.

And the 2nd part was in an interview (or maybe the BWB), ill try to track it down. MOST AS in the AOL didnt have jobs that dealt with the OP. angreal/sangreal were readily available, so strength in the OP meant little as well, if something needed to be done, they found the most skilled person in that field, then made the appropriate circles/used the right angreal. The hall of servants coordinated all of it. healers, and mining were fields that only were done by channelers, but most other things were done by many, terangreal were also readily available and many can be used withouth the OP. Think what % of the population are miners, doctors, and work with the power company, i bet its a small fraction of a %, then youd have ppl that studied the OP, who are kind of like professors and grad students, add all of them up and the amount of ppl that actually work in a field that needs the OP is still a very small fraction of a % of the population.




all of what i said was explicitaly stated in the books, the weaves yellows use (until nyneave) were a weaves used on battlefields by lesser AS, who didnt have the skill to delve and heal much, they just put 1 weave, and hoped they were strong enough that it didnt kill them. (you cant heal small animals or babies cause healing causes shock that will kill them). there still was skill in the AOL weaves, you had to know what to heal and how much, which is why semmy was renowned, she could heal ppl that others had assumed there was no way to heal them without killing them.






sammael mentions this to messana i think, asking her since shes in the tower is she going to bind herself like a common criminal



there were many oath rods, known as binders, in the AOL, each was numberd, we know theres a handful left in the 3rd age, i guess it can be assumed that they were "kept track" of so that criminals couldnt release themselves. they served many purposes, first, and obviously they would keep criminals from repeating crimes, but more than that, the more oaths you take, the more "ageless" you look, and the shorter your life is, so it kept criminals from breaking the law, and it shortened their life and let others know what they were.


there was and article somewhere i read a few years ago that describe the gov't of the AOL, there were 3 branches, executive, legislative, and the hall of servants (i guess they didnt need a judicial as there werent really criminals). the hall of servants was the branch that dealt with channelers, organizing, making/enforcing laws, etc, the person in charge was "first among servants" and wore the ring of tamrlyn, LTT was head of the hall of servant, but during the war he later became the leader of the exective branch, whose title was "lord of the mornng" sort of like the president of the world (the VP was called the "lord of the twilight") you didnt have to be a channie to be lord of the morning, but since they were popular and "honored" they often were. the lord of the morning could summong the rods of dominion, meaning call a meeting with the governors of the world (maybe they were like presidents of continents, or whatever, there were 9 of em)



as to age, in the AOL, messana was 200 at the collapse and she was stated to be "young". LTT was 400 and still in his prime, so i would assume that top tier channies could live to be 800ish. if current AOL didnt bind themselves they could expect to live to be 300-400, instead of 250 like they do, Cadsuane is 300, but shes also one of the most powerful AS in the tower, so maybe with oath rod and 3 oaths channies could live to be 400

Oath Rods are specific to channelers. The person has to throw a weave of spirit into it for it to work. They had another Ter'angreal for nonchannelers.

Tauril's right about that part. They didn't force criminals to swear on the oath rod, it was a choice...swear on it or be gentled (not sure where this came up in this thread, but I thought i'd comment)

yes, i meant "criminals that could channel" for non channelers you need a ter'angreal that sammael called a binding chair, which it is assumed is what the chair is in the WT is.

I think it may be similar to ideologies, say Democracy versus Communism.

The present-day White Tower is like Democracy - representing factions functioning (supposedly) for the good of all, but with so many it gives much room for corruption and secrecy. The factions (ajahs, sitters, heads) share power and decisions with the head of the state (The Amyrlin), so it takes a long time before deciding on something. This mentality hinders growth, unlike say, if you had ALL Aes Sedai ordered to perfect the eavesdropping weave in every imaginative way in an audience to share every speck of knowledge.

In the AoL, material wealth and knowledge was common and available to all, but here, "service and honorifics" where what people aimed for, which sounds like what Communism aims at. The age also shares a common trait with Communism - slaves and servants - the Aiel, who are then given to the priviledged. Channelers were just like any other people, they aimed to be known, honored for their service, which left little room for hoarding of knowledge and resources.

Aes Sedai Thinking:
Present Day - you have so much freedom to do your thing, so keep secrets and end up the most powerful of all!
Age of Legends - you are forced to share your secrets, so you can be honored, so dig up more knowledge for everyone so you can be most honored of all!

But as Nynaeve and that Ashaman whose name escapes me found, gentling could be fixed. So back in the AoL, guess the criminal would also be made to swear not to allow an extra-judicial reversal (at pain of forced suicide?) to be carried out on them!

I'm not sure I understood that, but are you suggesting an AoLer could have requested Severing (what the AoLers called Gentling/Stilling) to remove the Oaths, then being Healed of Severing and be good as new?

Severing couldn't be Healed in the Age of Legends. They thought it impossible. The Forsaken are flabbergasted when they hear of Nynaeve doing it.